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Talk:Weapon Tiers
I would truly appreciate it if someone would be kind enough to finish this page that is so beneficial to the wiki. Thank you in advance.SupaChigga 17:38, July 25, 2010 (UTC) I'm sorry, but did we really just copy and paste the "Existence of Teirs" bit from the Super Smash Brothers wiki, then change "Characters" to "Weapons" wherever it appeared? 02:02, August 25, 2010 (UTC) I would personally like to see damage calculations be used to rank the weapons in tiers. I disagree with the way elements and crits are added to the grade. I'd like to see that method of ranking backed up with some damage calculations (ie Why is the golden skull mace better than the butcher knife? Does the crit make up for the difference in strength?) Lax4life 00:17, September 26, 2010 (UTC) on damage.... I fully agree about needing damage reports. I did some rough tests using a lvl 38 character with max str on the thieves at the start of thieves forest. The char does 31 base damage to the thieves with a +0 sword. The skull mace obviously also does 31 also but 3% of the time it scores a crit which does 4x dmg (124). The ng sword does 37 dmg due to it's +6 str. Over 100 hits base dmg would be 31x100 = 3100. On average Gold skull mace would do (31x97)+(124x3) = 3379. Ng gold sword with +6 str would do (37x100) = 3700. The bear's wooden club at +5 w/1% crit would do (36x99)+144 = 3708. Now... these were very rough tests but they seem to hint that the skull mace may not in fact be all its cracked out to be. It also seems to indicate that unless I'm missing a higher str item with extra abilities, the bear club (only just) has the highest average damage output. It should be noted that level seems to affect damage output as well as str. These numbers refer to a lvl 38 character. Finally, its probably worth pointing out that obviously some of these weapons have other magic, Def or agility modifiers. The topic of my observation was purely to state my curiosity for the weapon with the highest damage output. Additional benefits can of course make all the difference. Especially on insane mode. I however tend to just go with whatever looks coolest. Richie groinstabber 01:16, November 23, 2010 (UTC) I agree with Richie that this is all messed up. I think that 1% crit should be counted as a +1 str. If you're worried about this list, you're probably at max or near max str, and are doing about 30 damage to any given character. Also, if you have less than max str on your character, the critical hit bonus is even worse than having +1 str. This list way overvalues crit hits, which really are pretty meaningless on insane mode because now you only have to hit the enemy 194 times instead of 200 times. Also, fire damage modifier is 3 times more valuable than +1 str? You've got to be kidding me. 14:33, February 26, 2011 (UTC) When I first saw this page I did a quick WTF; like the above poster I agree that the value of the stats in this tier list are weighted poorly. The Demon Sword rated that highly is incredibly stupid as normal critical hits (or the Ice Sword's freeze crit) are way more useful than fire elemental crits. What's really worrying is that Agility seems to be valued very highly, despite not having much of an effect on move speed or arrow damage. Attack (which you use constantly) and Defense (which has an effect on both max HP and reduces damage taken) are far more important stats. For instance, the Club being a lower tier than something like the Snakey Mace is incredibly bizarre, especially when the Snakey Mace is pretty useless. If you're choosing a weapon to boost your magic with because you're focusing on spell damage, then something that raises it as much and adds to Defense, which is far more useful than Agility? The Black Morning Star and Glowstick are far better if you're focusing on Magic rather than physical attacks than the Snakey Mace's hit to defense, and those both still add a crit to your attacks. Again, why is the Sai rated so highly? The tier system in place causes it to be ranked highly when an archery focused character could use a much better weapon like the Skeletor Mace or Bone Leg, both of which pump Agility without costing valuable Defense (indeed the Skeletor Mace gives you a boost). If you're a fan of using a bow and arrow as your primary means of attack, crits on a weapon aren't that important, and neither is strength. The whole using a mathematical system to place weapons into tiers simply doesn't work for this game due to how Magic and Agility tend to be less useful than Attack and Defense (not to mention the overvaluing of fire/lightning crits) and this entire page desperately needs a competent rewrite. It looks like someone thought "TIERS YAY, MATH YAY" and decided to combine the worst aspects of both by failing to rank the weapons by category (attack-oriented, defense-oriented, magic-oriented, overall boosts, etc) and by heavily weighting the game's more useless stats in the algorithm. The Sai being ranked the same tier as the Ugly Mace and Black Morning Star when the Agility bonus is almost useless in practice compared to the high Defense/Magic bonuses tells me this mathematical algorithm is broken. Weapons with Attack and Defense are generally way more useful than ones with high Agility/Magic bonuses, and different weapons excel in their categories depending on what you're after. Why not just sort weapons into the 'bests' for each category/use? For instance, people into straight physical melee will want to boost Attack (and Defense), so the Club, Dual Prong Sword or possibly Gold Skull Mace (for the crits) are arguably the top-tier weapons. With maxed out natural agility, the -5 hit from using the Club isn't that bad, or you can avoid it and go Dual Prong Sword for a slight loss of Attack and Defense, both stats being important in Insane difficulty especially. People looking for Defense weapons have several candidates depending on if Crits or not are an issue, and Magic boosting weapons have a few top tier candidates like Unicorn Horn or Black Morning Star. Agility weapons aren't impressive, but Agility's probably the least useful on a weapon as you have more than enough with it naturally maxed out. Fsiowerjiofwe 03:19, October 18, 2011 (UTC) 0% crit chance - av. 100% dmg (1*100 = 100) 1% crit chance - av. 103% dmg ((1*99)+4 = 103) 2% crit chance - av. 106% dmg ((1*98)+(4*2) = 106) 3% crit chance - av. 109% dmg ((1*97)+(4*3) = 109) lv 99 +0 strength - 37 dmg (100.0%) +1 strength - 38 dmg (102.7%) +2 strength - 39 dmg (105.4%) +3 strength - 40 dmg (108.1%) +4 strength - 41 dmg (110.8%) +5 strength - 42 dmg (113.5%) 100X/37 = 103, X = 103*0.37, X = 38.11 (1% crit chance has an average of 1.11 points of damage per hit) 1% crit chance is therefore worth 1.11 skill points, 2% is 2.22, 3% is 3.33. lower lv +0 strength - 20 dmg (100.0%) +1 strength - 21 dmg (105.0%) +2 strength - 22 dmg (110.0%) i.e as you get higher in lv crits become better relative to strength upgrades making the skill point worth lower as your level is lower In order to meet the 4 skill point rating; Z+4/Z = 1.03, Z+4 = 1.03Z, 4 = 0.03Z, Z=4/0.03, Z = 133.33, i.e your average hit would need to be 134 for a 1% crit chance to be worth 4 skill points. crits should be rated at 1.11 skill points or lower, how can they be justified at 4 skill points or am I missing something? As for the electric, fire or poison I have not done the calculations yet but I'm sure it wouldn't be any more difficult Harry9397 (talk) 20:44, September 2, 2014 (UTC)